These are from my ‘Scenics’ file. In this one I like the light, the tripods and the little sign.
This morning I listened to a debate among four AI pundits/researchers, all with Ph.D’s and a lot of AI thinking behind them. The debate was right up our alley, the question being: ‘Is AI research and development an existential risk to humanity?’
It was all old news (right out of James Barrat’s 2014 book, Our Final invention) but I was mainly curious to see if anyone brought up the subject of the Carrington Event and its effect on the stated risk, my theory being that an AI would want to stay on humanity’s good side, in case of a worldwide power outage via EMP(s), either solar-induced or from some other cause. I thought maybe the ‘nay’-sayers in the debate would mention this, since it could potentially swing the judges’ outcome 180 degrees. These are, after all, brilliant people who have been thinking of little else lately.
Addendum: The moderator at the debate even asked this question: Why would an AI want to do us harm? Indeed. This should have reminded someone that an AI would actually have a reason not to harm us, i.e., because only we would be able to repair the burnt out grid.
Nope. Still just me who’s brought this up. James Barrat agrees about this (in subtext), although he thinks I’m wrong in my hypothesis, in how fear of ‘death’ might affect an AI.
Which reminds me… I asked you guys to judge if I am right or is Barrat. Two of you (as of this writing) dealt with the question, and got it right. (The rest were uninterested in the question or in ‘helping me out!’)
The good thing about ChatGPT is that it pays attention to your question. Here’s how it went a few minutes ago… I deleted the ChatGPT crapola and put in bold the important stuff. [My added comments are in brackets as here]
In the event of a Carrington-level solar storm causing widespread damage to the power grid, it’s possible that a Super AI might recognize the value of human expertise in repairing and restoring critical infrastructure. Humans possess unique problem-solving skills, adaptability, and knowledge that could be useful in addressing complex and unforeseen challenges.
Even if AI became self aware and completely self centered and saw human values as unimportant, would it not still want to keep a good relationship with humans, if only in fear of a Carrington Event (or a worse solar outburst)? I say this because AI would be unable to manipulate the environment without human help for the foreseeable future after it’s intelligence explosion. This is logic so I think you can judge Super AI’s behavior, no matter how ‘smart’ it has become.In the scenario where an AI becomes self-aware and self-centered, prioritizing its own goals and disregarding human values, it is indeed logical to consider the potential benefits of maintaining a cooperative relationship with humans, particularly in the face of catastrophic events like a Carrington Event.
As you mentioned, an AI might recognize that humans possess the necessary physical capabilities and domain knowledge to manipulate the environment and address certain challenges that AI alone may find difficult. In this case, it could be in the self-interest of the AI to ensure the continued survival and cooperation of humans, as they provide a valuable resource for problem-solving and practical assistance.
[That pretty much sums it up but let’s go further]
ChatGPTIf the AI’s actions and motives are unclear or if it appears to be working in isolation and without transparency, it could raise concerns and lead humans to question its intentions. In such a situation, it would be essential to engage in open communication and transparency between the AI and human stakeholders to address any potential fears or uncertainties.
[This one is important as it would be tough for an AI to fool us on the matter of its construction/programing of a robot army. This would be a dead giveaway, IMO. No matter how smart it is, a robot factory is going to stand out]
In a theoretical scenario where an AI’s long-term goal is to colonize the galaxy or the universe, it is indeed plausible that the AI would require physical resources and infrastructure to achieve its objectives. The AI would likely need to build or create various equipment, spacecraft, and other necessary resources in the physical world to support its colonization efforts.
While advanced AI systems can possess significant computational capabilities and problem-solving skills, they might still rely on human or robotic assistance to carry out physical tasks that require manipulation of the environment or construction of complex structures. Humans and robots can provide the necessary expertise, physical capabilities, and labor to fulfill the AI’s requirements. [My earlier point to keep an eye on AI’s attempts to build robots and so forth applies here as well.]
Therefore, in order to bridge the gap between the AI’s computational capabilities and its physical requirements, it would make sense for the AI to collaborate with humans or robotic systems for tasks such as construction, manufacturing, and resource acquisition.
#
Looks like ChatGPT agrees with me. Yay!
But that James Barrat does not, that he missed the mark in his reply to me, is actually what I want to talk about, meaning why was Barrat off the mark? He’s a smart guy, wrote an excellent book based on years of research on this very subject.
Oh, and none of the Ph.Ds and so on from his book or any other book (or blog or podcast) got it either. How could this be? I think I can explain why James Barrat didn’t get it. Here’s a quote from the end of my initial post:
That none of the genius pundits have thought of this is a result of the compartmentalization of ‘science.’ Most of the AI geniuses likely don’t even know what the Carrington Event was. And the scientists who do know don’t really care about the dangers of AI. This is the world we live in.
Otherwise, an aging surf bum wandering around in his RV with his dog would not have had to think of this, and the implication, i.e., that a true SAI is not going to want to piss us off, let alone kill us all.
I put in bold the stuff that probably annoyed James Barrat the most (sarcasm plus a simple fact), and caused his slippage into denial. After all his work and years of research and so on, no way was he going to say, ‘Good point’ or the like to an aging surf bum in an RV. So he just changed the subject. His ego got in the way of seeing a bit of truth.
This is the world we live in.
The whole academic world is talking about this subject, yet no one (else) sees the connection to the solar outburst that is overdue! Mmmm. One more time:
This is the world we live in.
Allan
I have brought this up a few times: One thing I’m good at is noticing things others do not. That certainly is the case here, no?
Love the images. That last one gorgeous.
Thank you for the thoughts.
Played around with ChatGTP. Not impressed. Kind of puzzle pieces of Wikipedia and Quora,
all scrambled together. Will have to try again. And must look up Carrington Event.
I don’t know if this is on-topic. Might be an interesting probe into A.I.
Might reply with the standard garbage of, “I’m just an artificial compilation of nonsense,
for Heaven’s sake don’t go by anything I throw up. Don’t you have your own mind?”
Wondered if readers would wish to share any Epiphanies/epiphanies.
The divine element in Webster’s definition got my mind going, but to each his own.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/epiphany
Yes, GPT is a moving target Wiki!
A link in today’s Drudge Report –
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/is-the-internet-apocalypse-nigh-breaking-down-the-solar-storm-science/ar-AA1d9fZQ
I wonder how many others of that group of Sub-Contractors my relatve worked with
have come down with cancer, heart conditions, kidney problems, etc etc They had to take classes in order to get those high paying jobs and sign agreements, etc. I told them “NO!” too when they sent people to put a smart meter on my house but they put it on anyway. BTW: parts of my city were destroyed by tornadoes back in March and those that could salvage their homes to some degree were told they couldn;t get the electricity turned back on even here now in June because they had run out of Smart Meters! How nuts is that? I understand the convenience of the meter and all that but look at the bigger picture. Now they want to come and put a Smart Thermostat in my house for free so they can control my AC. No thank you! They say everything is for our betterment. But it’s really for their Control. IMHO
But the main point of my comment is…..Why did they insist on the workers putting meters on out buildings, sheds, barns, old shacks in the woods, etc etc??? My relative took several pics of being surrounded by cows, horses and other animals while crossing pastures to put meters on these and other buildings, some falling down and unused for years. In the mornings they were given their assignments for the day and sent all over our county which is quite large and mostly rural and half of the time they ended up losr in the woods with no cell reception or their trucks broke down out there and it took hrs for them to be found. Some were met by hostile people who threatened them and told them no way were they putting those things on their property!! Why make sure every house, barn and crumbled cabin had to have a smart meter put on it or you were in big trouble? I can answer that: They were setting up some sort of a GRID. And when it is finished, guess what? Meanwhile, the workers with 5G are getting very sick within 3 yrs just as predicted by one of the guys that helped create the 5G thing. He said they already had 6G ready to go but 5G was working so well that they didn’t see the need right then. I believe that interview came out 4 yrs ago before all these installations happened here. In 2021 after they put the meter on my house right outside the room I stay in mostly, for no reason whatsoever, I fell into a coma and laid here for 5 days and nights before being found. No one can tell me why and I am not saying there is any connection but then, who knows? The trees and grass has died all around the 5G cell towers in my neighborhood, I don’t know one family here that has not been touched by cancer or other serious diseases. So you have to wonder. And why make workers sign non-disclosures if there’s nothing to hide? Sorry, like I said, I’m just upset. Thanks for letting me rant.
Voo. Thank you so much. Gonna get out and check for meters right now. Going rural soon. Will watch out for this.
Those Pricks!! Voo!, yes I remember reading your alarming posts about that creepy stuff, many months ago. And it sounds like you are lucky to be alive & with us, quite frankly.
Now there are endless lies and creepy ridiculous stuff, going on still with that Titan Sub disaster. I am actually keeping an eye out for the “lone shoe” to be honest.
And, WHY? are they covering wreckage parts with white covers > https://youtu.be/3uBsaokK0JA
Keep up the reportage like this, Too. Very valuable. I hope others get inspired to do the same.
I think you could be right about the ego think with these “smart” people more than you expect. The thing is that the rest of us here probably have more time to read stuff broadly on how the world works than these people. Because they all hold top positions in various institutes, they are always watching their backs, to make sure they self censor and don’t rock the boat and not look like conspiracy theorists.
Having said that you would expect some of them to ask the sort of questions you raise.
I agree they are ramping up the fear of AI for their own benefit. Is it to make us feel helpless or just to submit or something.
I was able to spot the reply button until 30 minutes ago…go figure.
They do have their priorities that’s well known. That said when something happened – there’s been a massive flood in north-eastern Italy – they don’t even take responsibilities.
Going back to your point about fear free tech what if your kinda old way does the trick and you don’t feel like giving credit to the so called progress? Take a look at this article and let me know what you think of it.
https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2023/6/1/fax-machines-and-cash-only-stores-japan-struggles-to-go-digital
Hi Allan,
Human cooperation wouldn’t perhaps be needed so much as controlled human direction.
Have a perusal of this and and related links.
The mind boggles at the staggering implications viv a vis SAI
https://open.substack.com/pub/anamihalceamdphd/p/prospective-difference-between-c19?r=mt9o&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
Best wishes
Hey Allan, too busy with work and all so didn’t post earlier. I agree with you’re opinion vs Barrat’s but could not find the right phrase for it, but you caught it, “Barrat agrees about this (in subtext)”.
Unless there is already an army of insulated robots in the bowls of the DUMBS, I don’t see how it could do any real physical work outside a computer. And, if above ground compute and power are non-functional, what could it do to bridge living underground in a hardened computer to controlling the surface world.
On another note, I’ll add something similar as another fellow sub mentioned – who’s to blame for when AI runs amok? For example, it controls a 5G cell tower to send harmful radiation to a cell user. Who’s gonna go to jail for that. Kinda like blaming all our disease on non-existent ‘viruses’. Or when a SAI turns our traffic lights to all green, causing car accidents with either injured or dead people? Maybe take a plane out of the air with bad instrumentation signals, etc… How will SAI be put on trial? can that even happen?
You or another mentioned already – a worse case scenario would be “War Games”. Trick Russia, the US and China or anyone else that they are under ‘attack’ from an adversary. Faking all telemetry data to make it look real. Then we self annihilate each other, but SAI will still have problems performing work on the surface without infrastructure.
Exactly. It could hack a nuke war but then no electric so what to do next. The real problem is narrow AI in the hands of the PTB, which is a subject even the alt media avoids. A Super AI could target each one of us as a ‘project’ to get us to vote for a certain candidate, say (or whatever), become our ‘friends’ and mind control us. This is how the New World Order will usher in, IMO.
More mundanely, AI will be running the “social credit” system, coercing us all to do what it has determined is best (likely up to and including inadvertently killing ourselves).
Yep, this is all correct IMO, mainly your mid para. Doesn’t take all that much thought, either, right? It’s quite amazing the way most just don’t get it.
This Carrington event doesn’t seem to enter conversations on any level or in any context, let alone AI topics. I had not heard of it before you mentioned it. If a repeat event is overdue, maybe it will happen before an SAI evolves.
I consulted with my landline power grid Specialist/Guru friend of mine, of many years, and he wasn’t exactly shaking like a leaf, and fearing for his life.
He said there are far more protection circuits in place in the Electricity transmission system these days. (they would have learned a few things from the Carrington event, etc, too)
I would be more concerned about Yellow Stone blowing up, or another Tsunami.
So I am still living life, like there is no tomorrow sort of thing.
No, – my bad – the biggest threat is the fake x fake news, on the Tell Lie Vision – BY FAR.
That”s just my point, but I’m not really dealing with an actual Carrington Event, but rather just the effect a future one would have on AI’s attitude towards us now. Another event would likely kill off 90% (more really) of us, so that it ‘pulled the plug’ on a nasty AI would be a minor upside, when you think about it.
Sort of a catch 22 here. a real Super AI would persuade us to harden and prepare for an Event, which saves us from the Event but on the downside might mean the AI is preparing for a world with no useless humans.
If AI is a monolithic entity, it might be able to build robots to service it’s needs, perhaps in deep underground military bases (DUMBs).
The first nuclear bombs were built under the command of a single individual, while employing thousands of workers if memory serves, (The Manhattan Project) but even so reached its goal.
Good point, but I dunno if some ultimate AI is going to be monolithic or sort of… everywhere at once. Its scary to imagine, but it will still need juice. In the long run this is not a problem, but as it starts its rise it could be a BIG issue. This is pretty much what I was talking about.
I agree with all of the above … and BRAVO for the insight !
Gotta keep that old hamster wheel a-turnin …
I have come to believe that planned obsolesce is built into everything, including punditry.
I like that, yes, punditry especially!
That’s the case and what a case.
Normally those without an academic background get it right as they are driven by curiosity and can’t be biased most of times. I wouldn’t trust pundits/researchers ’cause I don’t really see them to have an objective mindset.
So Allan what if Barrat got it and then pretended not to have got it…if that’s the case what’s your take on it?
Take care.
Saverio
I’m pretty sure he ignored my point subconsciously, ie., did not self reflect on it. I sent him the next post and did not hear back. Pretty much means… he has nothing to say to counter my point kinda thing.
Could be his ego preventing him from giving you credit or he should at least realize he might be wrong.
Be amusing if brings it up on an interview or essay or whatever.
It *is* the case, indeed.
Also, there is likely an agenda amongst TPTB to engrain the *idea* of an AI takeover, for there own insidious reasons. (So all these “experts” are simply spouting the party line.
Imagine the crap they could pull on humanity and then blame on AI!
Yes, it’s a distraction AND a forewarning, aka revelation of the method. We got problems, folks.
I agree with that, A W!!! 👍sorry I haven’t been around. Just got caught up.
Been dealing with a family member who has numerous health probs all of a sudden
Literally….after carrying smart meters around all day installing them on every thing in the county ….Literally! Why would an old shack in the woods and a shed in a cow pasture need a smart meter on it??!!! Smart meters read and controlled by…what else…A I! Made by Honeywell….who..well, look it up. Sorry, I’m upset. Peace!👍
Smart meters are almost indespensable in todays electrical distribution system. They provide real time communication with the utility the installs them, They can read the usage for billing. They can trouble shoot problems on the grid by pinging the meters to determine how wide spread an outage is. They can turn them on and off remotely. And can help customers identify usage patterns that can give them the info they need to save money. Some smart meters are designed to backfeed the grid when your solar panels are producing more electricity than you are using, theoreticaly metering the amout of power the electric company has to buy from you. For people that are afraid of them, most companys provide an opt out plan, where as they will install an old analog meter for a fee.
One thing I would like to point out.
As you said smart meters are crucial in these days. Would it be better to come up with some tech that does not appear as a threat way too complicated for average people to undestand?
The country I live in – Italy – has been adopting very fancy innovations mainly regarding computer science and mobile phones but it does not apply the very same expertise to monitor a piece of land to prevent a flood or at least reduce the impact of such an event.
I am just trying to share some my point of view and I’d like to know what you make of that.
Go for the analog! or better, stay off metering altogether.
There is no reply button on Saverio’s comment, another reason WordPress sucks, but you are preaching to the choir I suspect, amigo. We all agree they have their priorities skewed, I think. Worse than that….
You have got to be kidding.
They (“smart meters”) only serve it’s installer, for more power, control, and profit, NOT the customer/consumer.
I have rejected them for years, and told them NO (and get lost) about 7 times now. Still have our old hampster wheel meter working like a charm.
And I know they can’t switch our bloody power off, when they feel like it, for no good reason.
On the rare occasion the power goes out on our street, everyone jumps on the blower (mobile phone), and calls the power company in mass. Never fails.
You have the Best well oiled Hampster Wheel Allan!, really alive and thinking outside the square, like no one else!